R   S Q U B F :: D i s c u s s i o n
   h o m e   |   a b o u t   |   n e w s   |   r e a d i n g   |   d i s c u s s i o n   |   s u p p o r t   |   g u e s t b o o k
c u r r e n t   d i s c u s s i o n  
The RSQUBF discussion area is currently hosted by livejournal.com. It is a livejournal.com community (or group weblog) with comments enabled. It is for FORMER members of UBF only, who have created livejournal.com accounts. Generally, any topic can be brought up for discussion, but a focus on UBF and people's UBF and post-UBF experiences is encouraged. Please observe the following guidelines when posting new entries or replies: 1) Refrain from using profanity, 2) Refrain from trolling, The moderator reserves the right to delete entries and replies that violate the above guidelines. The opinions expressed in the discussion area are not necessarily the opinions of RSQUBF or the RSQUBF webmaster.

PLEASE NOTE: If you are currently in UBF or have a loved one in UBF and need to talk to someone about your genuine concerns about UBF or about leaving UBF, you should consider getting in touch with the individuals listed as contacts on the support page.




a r c h i v e d   d i s c u s s i o n  
Heavy Internet discussion about UBF goes back to 2001 when both the RSQUBF and reformubf.org (now defunct) discussion boards were filled with thousands of messages. Important and interesting discussion threads from the past will be posted here for viewing.

f r e q u e n t l y   a s k e d   q u e s t i o n s  
The arguments used by defenders of abusive systems such as UBF usually follow general patterns. The same arguments defending UBF and UBF leaders come up repeatedly in discussions with UBF members. This section is an attempt to address those general defenses of UBF and attacks against former UBF members.

Q. Aren't you just rehashing old allegations against UBF or against just one man or just a few individuals?

A. The implication is that UBF has changed. However, the "we've changed" argument has been used throughout UBF's history even while the worst abuses were being perpetrated. Those who raise the "just one man" argument never seem to be able to *NAME* that "just one man." That "just one man" is Samuel C. Lee, of course. But he apparently cannot be named as the source of UBF problems, even after his death, because to name him would get someone in trouble in UBF. What does that tell us about the present state of UBF?

Those "few individuals", who also cannot be named in UBF, are mostly still leaders and directors in the hierarchy of UBF and have not been investigated or disciplined in accordance with UBF's non-existent code of discipline for abusive leaders.

Please also see this recent statement. The abusive *SYSTEM* that that "just one man" created lives on through his loyal successors. Abusive systems historically do not change so easily without corporate repentence, repentence that has thus far been missing and even dismissed as a notion in UBF.

Q. Aren't you judging? Aren't we commanded not to judge?

A. See the article "The Cult of 'Do Not Judge'" discussed at http://community.livejournal.com/rsqubf/54929.html

See others' responses to general defenses of other abusive systems:


   h o m e   |   a b o u t   |   n e w s   |   r e a d i n g   |   d i s c u s s i o n   |   s u p p o r t   |   g u e s t b o o k
Ex 8:1
Copyleft 2005 RSQUBF